The shape of a woman {questions on modesty and men}

 

He posted it to his Facebook wall for the benefit of his female friends late one night.

Because they needed to hear a guy's perspective.

The link was hard for me to miss.  A sound clip blown up movie style with the black and white photo of a meditative man upon it. Soulful music played as a prominent pastor addressed the women in his congregation. He spoke of the struggles that men face in regards to a woman's modesty and read a letter from a college-aged friend who had written in detail on his struggle with lust. The young man discussed the difficulty he had walking around campus as every woman in front of him was unknowingly tempting him to mentally molest her. He confessed it took everything in his power to see female friends as people rather than objects. To look her in the face rather than at her body. He begged women to consider the way they dress and to ask themselves whether they could cause a man to sin before going out in public.

 

The offensive nature of the sermon was not just focused on women, but suggested that men are sex-crazed creatures with no ability to control themselves, and that women are guilty merely for being well, women.

 

I was sickened.

And so the argument began.

 Women posted on my friend's facebook wall. Grieving over being given such a heavy burden to bear. Wondering where the responsibility lay in a man's mind, when in his heart he could not see women as people, and why the guilt was ultimately laid upon them. One friend expressed her resignation at always being treated as an object, and nothing more.

 

What outrages me, is that this is not just one sermon, but a potent example of the misogynistic church culture in which we live.

 

Source

 

How much of modesty is relative? And what is our responsibility as women?

 A recent Modesty Study of thousands of men ranging from teens to middle age shows that men's definition of modesty covers a full spectrum of female dress, behavior and speech. In the study, every possible part of a woman's dress was dissected and reviewed as if she was an animal on parade. The results showed that for some men modesty was loosely defined by the character of the woman and for others even the smallest glimpse of an ankle or shoulder could send their minds down a slippery slope. Ultimately the definition and details varied by great degree depending upon the man who was answering the questions.

 

As a woman, I am encouraged to dress modestly and to not lay a stumbling block in front of my brother, and admittedly I do not always do my part.  

 

But women, where does the responsibility end with us?

 When does it fall upon the shoulders of the men?

 At what point do they finally become responsible before God for their hearts, their eyes, their minds? Setting their hearts and mind towards God and committing to a holy lifestyle of renewing and building personal purity from the inside-out, rather than laying the blame on women?

 

When are Christian men going to stand up and say that shaming, picking apart and blaming women is not acceptable. When do they stop viewing us as objects and take to heart   Philippians 2:3 - in humility valuing others above themselves? Training themselves to see past the exterior, regardless of how difficult, and viewing a woman instead for the priceless and beautiful child of God that she is?

 

It is my heart's hope that godly men will step up to the plate. That they will begin to expect more and to view themselves not as depraved animals, but as sons of a Holy Father, set apart to love and be loved in all goodness and purity.

 

Discuss.

 

Comments

[Natalya]

Don't forget the coetnxt of the Ephesians passage. Paul was relating how Christians as a whole should relate to one another and the WIves and Husbands illustration is a corollary to it. Here's verse 21 "Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ." I think Paul was just clarifying the marital roles in that message

[Emi]

I don't have any curves (lol!), but still found this list tsomendeurly helpful as a mom of two. Just because it looks like I have nothing to cover, doesn't mean I shouldn't cover it!Recently my s-i-l found a camisole type thingie similar to a tube top except it snaps onto your bra straps. I love it! Perfect for summer because the band is only a few inches wide and doesn't add all that bulk.

[Niharika]

I asked my husband his opionin and he thinks that men get their feelings hurt in a different way and possibly don't take it to heart the same way women do. Which is also why a lot of the time men hurt women's feelings. Oi what a dilemma. My advice to myself and women, don't take things so pesonally and to men, think before you speak. Nathan, I'm sorry your feelings were hurt. It wasn't personal about the lateness. I only pose these questions to get us all thinking. Not to cause hurt. Happy Day!

[Deborah Campbell]

It was interesting to me that the word "modest" is used once in the Bible. 1Ti. 2:9 and that very same word in Greek is translated as "good behavior" in 1 Ti 3:2. Below I copied the Vines Dictionary definition of #2887. It does not mean to be covered up, but its our behavior. My mother always taught me that a woman can cover everything except her eyes, yet bring a man to his knees with them alone. It is her behavior.

I think that can be supported by the fact that a woman does not seduce her doctor while having an exam, even if her female parts are exposed, right? But put the same woman on the beach in a bikini, walking a certain way, feeling sexy, and if that doctor was there, he may be seduced.

Modesty defined: Vines Expository Dictionary

kosmios (G2887), "orderly, wellarranged, decent, modest" (akin to kosmos, in its primary sense as "harmonious arrangement adornment"; cf. kosmikos, of the world, which is related to kosmos in its secondary sense as the world), is used in 1Ti_2:9 of the apparel with which Christian women are to adorn themselves; in 1Ti_3:2 (RV, "orderly;" KJV, "of good behavior"), of one of the qualifications essential for a bishop or overseer. "The well-ordering is not of dress and demeanor only, but of the inner life, uttering indeed and expressing itself in the outward conversation" (Trench, Syn., Sec.xcii). In the Sept., Ecc_12:9.

1Ti 2:9 In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest (G2887) apparel,with shamefacedness and sobriety (two great words in the Greek; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;

1Ti 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife,vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, (G2887) given to hospitality,apt to teach;

[Chris]

Here's another "guy's perspective":

Any good looking woman is going to attract the attention of men. Should women be condemned for being intrinsically attractive? (No.) Shouldn't we focus on attitudes and conduct, rather than clothing? "Drawing the line" on clothing standards is an impossible task. Why don't we instead just focus on "renewing our minds" and seeing one another as children of God, made in His image? If a man is having such a hard time NOT mentally undressing an attractive, well-dressed woman, maybe he needs to think about his own skewed view of things, not place the blame on the lady at hand. Isn't that what Adam more or less did, way back in the day? Seriously, men, work harder to think with your *other* brain.

[Pepper Glenn]

Well said, Rachel. It is difficult to avoid one extreme or the other. But hopefully as Christians we can find that middle ground.

[Rachel]

Women are 100% responsible for what we wear and how we carry ourselvs. Men are 100% responsible for how the respond to that. If a woman is dressed like a harlot, she is guilty of dressing so; and a man who looks upon her with lust is guilty of lust. He is not justified in his sin by her provocative dress. If he is strong, and does not lust after her, he is inocent, but she is no less guilty because of his strength. If a Woman is dressed modestly and discreetly, and a man has so excercised his passions that he lusts after her anyway, she is innocent, and he is guilty.

We live in a culture that tells women "Dress as provocativly as possible, and if men do not treat you right they are piggs." This idea places all the burden on the men, as well as conditioning them to see women as objects for lust. Many women do not seem to be aware of the effect that provocative dress has on a man, because it does not affect us in the same way, and they need to be taught. The Church, in trying to address this problem, may shift to the other extreem, giving women the full burden, and men a free ride.

[dexx]

Just like to say I listened to that sermon too. I would like to see women take this as more of a suggestion rather than an attack. The first thing that came to mind for me is why don't women feel comfortable wearing the clothing implied (showing middrift not an ankle) to church? That is ultimately what needs to happen... if you can come before God wearing those cloths you are ok in my book. If you cannot then you are not only bringing yourself down but also hurting others.

[Pepper Glenn]

Kristy, I was actually thinking about this while preparing to post. They say that men are attracted by what they see while women are attracted by what they hear. It would be interesting to hear a sermon about 'lies men speak' or, encouragement to men not to mislead or tempt women through the things they say and do.

[Kristy]

infuriating! Take resposibility for your own thoughts!
How weak minded do you have to be to "molest women in your thoughts"?!
Do you think men give any thoughts to how they dress and how it affects women....